justira | [Art] Phoenix Wright - After Entirely Too Much Deliberation On the Matter (Phoenix/Miles) (PG)

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[Art] Phoenix Wright - After Entirely Too Much Deliberation On the Matter (Phoenix/Miles) (PG)

Title: After Entirely Too Much Deliberation On the Matter
Fandom: Phoenix Wright / Gyakuten Saiban
Characters/Pairings: Phoenix/Miles
Rating: ... PG?
Crit/Feedback: Always! I adore crit! I always dither on in my A/N about where specifically I'm looking to improve, too =D
Notes: First and foremost I have to give credit: this was inspired by another PW pic, Bedroom Kisses by

kamapon. I loved the idea very much, most especially the tangled legs and Nick's arms, and thought I'd try to do my own version. I redrew it entirely, of course, and I changed a lot around to suit my headcanon about Nick and Miles, but credit for at least 3/4 of the idea must go to the original artist. That said, I'm pretty proud of this linework and have a lot to say about it in my A/N =D

Colouring This Lineart: Several people have asked, so: if you'd like to colour this, feel free! I'd be delighted to see the finished product, but I do ask that you credit me for the line art and

kamapon for the original pic =)

Thumbnail:

[ Smaller 800x600 version ]

[ Bonus start-to-finish progression animation ]

A/N: Oh christ. This took forever (I started this in mid-November), but I think it was so, so worth it. I consider this some of the best line art I've ever done, and it was a fantastic exercise in body language. While I loved the idea of the first picture, I immediately developed a story in my head for that scenario and the original body language didn't match it, so most of my time on this was spent figuring out the body language I needed. I think I changed the mood quite a bit, too: everyone's clothes are more on... and Nick's wearing a tie. Because I think ties are hot >.>

I guess I ended up with my own story and my own idea for this picture, but I'll always be grateful for the original for getting me started.

I'm excited enough to be done that I made a progression animation! I actually documented this one quite frequently so I could show

bottle_of_shine, my body language consultant. She deserves a lot of credit for putting up with me pestering her about tiny differences in hand positioning. ~~Pathetic~~ FUN fact: the time difference between the last two frames of the progression is about three hours. I made a lot of small changes but I think the overall difference is quite noticeable. I consider that extra time polishing worth it!

I had a really rough time with almost every part of this picture at some point: hands, hair, all the fabric. NICK'S BUTT. The hands were the biggest problem, the one I really cared about most, because all the body language is in them (and in Miles's left leg). I wanted Nick to be gentle but assertive; I wanted Miles to be tense but wanting. I have a whole story behind this scene in my head, and the short version is: Miles overthinks matters entirely too much; Nick doesn't; and Miles doesn't realize either until his shirt's already off. Then the grabbing starts.

I changed Miles' hands around many, many times to try to express what I wanted them to -- you can see some of these happening in the progression animation. It took me ENTIRELY too long to realize I'd had Miles's left hand at the wrong angle, but now I am very proud of how well that hand came out. I am also strangely proud of the wrist on Miles's right hand.

I also, embarrassingly enough, spent a long time trying to get Nick's ass to look right. It was entirely flat the first time I drew it and it took me a lot of messing around to get it to look better... but I think I like it just fine now >.>

And god, Nick's HAIR. I am REALLY EMBARRASSED by his hair in the progression animation. You can see in one of the last frames that I finally drew in all the shape lines so I could get the outline right. I FUCKING FINALLY understand how his hair works. Jesus Christ. As a result I'm pretty proud of it! I think Miles's came out okay, too =D

And! I think I actually did okay on the fabric. You can see I had to try many times, especially on Miles's right trouser leg, but I think the end result is one of my better attempts at fabric!

Something that still bothers me is that I don't think I got Miles' shoulders to look quite wide enough: he's built like a fucking tank in canon; check out his head-on shots (links to a page full of animated Miles sprites). Every time I tried to make his shoulders wider it just looked weird. He's at this funny, 3/4 angle that minimizes shoulder width; it was quite frustrating. I tried instead to express his bulk through his torso, and I think I did okay there, though it was hard not to make him more buff than any 25-year-old work-obsessed lawyer has any right to be.

I learned a LOT from working on this. I've always known I have a problem with strong, confident lines, but after

bottle_of_shine pointed me toward a tutorial on the subject by

chirachira I resolved to really consciously make an effort to work on my lines. I think it really made a difference: you can see my sketchy lines in the earliest frames of the progression, from months ago, and cleaning them up took forever. For the last couple of drafts, I tried using long, confident lines, and it really, really sped up the inking process, and I think the lines came out really nice as a result.

So, I hope to keep working on my lines. I also think it's time for me to really think about my line width variation more critically: I love varying my line widths, but I can tell they're throwing the composition off in some places. I need to start thinking of line widths on a larger scale, as a composition tool. I think I regressed a little in that respect, really, since I think I handled that better in my "Blind Bandit" Toph picture.

And, as always, I hope to make my final lines more dynamic -- I always feel like I lose a lot of that between sketch and ink.

x-post:

gyakuten_saiban [here],

igiari [here],

narumitsu [here], my journal, da, y!g

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*_* I think it looks gorgeous.

Hee, thanks very much! I think I totally forgot you were in PW fandom, too. Your Miles icon is ADORABLE.

:D It was from this totally hilarious comic thing where Edgeworth was blathering on about Phoenix to Gumshoe and then Gumshoe said "why don't you just ask him out then?" or words to that effect. The artist let me make icons, but I think they deleted the original comic thing from their photobucket so I can't link. :((

I'm sorry, I'm still drooling over your awesome lines.

... I'm sorry, that icon just cracks me up every single time.

And dude, Sev. Soon you will know there characters. SOON.

Oh, and, like thanks and stuff XD
I've been trying to work on my lines! Apparently it is paying off?

Well, I really like it, because they look like GUYS, which is always a massive double-plus good for me, frankly. I can't be doing with elfin-Edgworth when you're dead right - he's built like a brick shithouse in the game itself - rawr! XD

My personal preference would be for a bit more of an ass on Phoenix, but what you have there is also fine (I'm just a fan of nice round bums is all - hahaha) ;)

Lovely inking there and I disagree that they aren't dynamic. I think youve done a sterling job and really, that's not an easy combined pose to draw while still keeping the illusion of movement.

Will you be attempting colouring (which is entirely another artform in itself, I know).

Whoa, uh, so one of my favourite PW authors totally showed up on my journal!

>.>

<.<

*gleeeeee*

Ahem, so, uh, thanks so much for the lovely comment!

I do tend to like my men manly, especially if they're manly-looking in canon. I love Edgeworth's build in the games, actually; it kind of cracks me up how tremendous he is.

Ahaha, Nick's butt. Man, I had the hardest time with that. I think I improved it quite a bit from where it started, but you're right, it's not very... full. This doesn't bother me too much (I am a-okay with angular and a little flat), but if I happen to draw it again I'll be trying to get a little more shape out of it XD

And thank you so much for your kind words! It's very nice to hear my lines might not be as static as they feel to me. I'll definitely keep working to improve my sense of movement, though -- couldn't hurt!

And yes, I do plan to colour it, though I am really, really, slow and quite insecure with colouring. I'm actually hoping to colour it in the style of official art such as this (http://gyakusai.magical-art.com/gallery/gallery.php?g2_itemId=305) and this (http://gyakusai.magical-art.com/gallery/gallery.php?g2_itemId=352), which is a lot simpler than my usual style and looks like it should work well with my line art. Here's hoping it goes well (and quickly)!

PS: The art in your icon is lovely! I see it's from wan-con, but I've looked that site up before and it seems to have disappeared. Any idea where it went?

Ha hah! Well you may have shot up the list to one of my favourite PW artists if this is anything to go by, so right back atcha XD

Yeah I'm a reasonably manly man type as well, if that's how they are in canon. And you know, they so are - especially Miles, who clearly has shoulders to die for (and they both have BIG HANDS which I note you captured here really well). Miles is fun in the games, because he's really not that good looking in a classic kind of way - his nose is weird, his jaw is pretty square. I like it when he gets recognised for that and not for being a fey pretty boy. Phoenix is kind of the handsome one of the two I think. (TMI I'm sure. We were having a discussion about this a while ago here: http://www.thevhive.com/forum/index.php?webtag=GUILTY about this a while ago.)

I think that colouring style is lovely, actually, so I hope it works for you and look forward to seeing it in due course! My OH (other half) dabbles in colouring sometimes and I have known one or two pros through the comic book industry so I know what a skill and an artform it is in its own right (and that it definitely isn't easy). So good luck! And no, I don't think your inking lines are static, but if you do you can always use some shading at the colouring stage to accentuate movement?

I have no idea where wan-con went and it's very sad as their representations of the characters were almost bang-on with my personal views, especially in terms of build etc. I would love some prints from their work, really as whether you know the game or not their work is just lovely in style and depth.

Fortunately I do have a lot of their images saved on to my hard drive and I use them as picture reference all the time.

Ahaha, thanks! Unfortunately I'm somewhat slow to produce big-deal inked things like this one -- I mostly do a lot of doodles and sketches, but I'm pretty shy about sharing those. I've been trying to get over that and post more of my unfinished work to my journal lately, though.

And no, not TMI at all -- I kind of adore discussing canon maybe a lot, and I definitely don't object to talking about how ridiculously attractive Phoenix and Miles are. I am definitely a huge fan of Mile's shoulders and someday soon I really have to draw him head-on just for that. But you're right, he's less classically attractive, and it doesn't really help that he spends most of his time scowling (honestly honey, it doesn't suit you). He pulls an incredibly sexy smirk, though, so I'm not really going to object or anything >.>

And Nick, uh. Sorry, I can't really discuss Nick's attractiveness, either physically or personality-wise, without deeply embarrassing myself so we'll just leave it at that, yes?

And the HANDS! In case it wasn't entirely obvious already, I kind of have a thing for hands, and the TREMENDOUS hands in PW canon please me. I worried a bit over this for my drawing -- I tried to get them nice and big but was nervous about over exaggerating. I'm glad you think that worked out okay!

Right, sorry, I'm done. I must say though that forum looks quite interesting! Thank you for the link!

Thanks again for the well-wishing and the kind words. I hope I can colour this soon =)

Ah, so sad about wan-con! I have never had the pleasure of actually seeing their original drawings; I've only seen their work in icons and the like. It's too bad they seem to be gone; it's always so sad when artists take all their work down!

I am big on hands too, so that's probably why I noticed. Hah hah! Hands/Bums/Shoulders are my Thing (as you can undoubtedly tell already, LOL!)

The forum link was a forum I put together as a sort of hang out for writers and artists should they want to use it to ask questions or share stuff. It's not heavy traffic but it ticks over!

You're a Nick girl, huh? LOL! Bless XD

There's a bunch of wan-con images in my photo reference gallery here: http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c107/llamaramauk/Phoenix%20Wright/

Mostly pages 3-5 I think. I use their stuff a lot when I am writing and (used to) pimp their site madly.

Ahaha, that's more or less my trifecta right there, though usually I'm more specifically in the collarbone area... but shoulders in general work just fine. Also I like jawlines a lot >.>

I think I have to check this forum out -- you can tell I can get pretty chatty XD

And, uh, Nick! Well, I like to pretend I don't have a preference, and when it comes to personality I can say it with a straight face. But on hotness, uh, yeah. Yeah... >.>

Also you just made me incredibly happy with a ton of awesome art. I will go roll around in it a lot now, thank you.

Hi there! :D I found your post through the phoenix wright comm. I just have to say that your lineart is really really well done. I saw your progress animation and all I have to say is "wow". xD lol. Do you by any chance use the pen tool to smooth out your lines or just the eraser?

The positioning is fantastic. It's really hard to draw something in that perspective but I think you got it down almost perfect. Did you use a reference for this pic? :3

Well your art just about blows mine out of the roof. lmao.

Oh no, I just took a look at your DA gallery and I love it! Your Red and White pic in particular is so beautiful and detailed, and your lines are so thin and pretty! (Secret: I've made peace with the fact that I just can't do thin lines consistently -- but I still envy people who can!) I love your Fran pic, too, with the nice subtle colours in her hair -- overall I adore your colours! I'm very shy with colour ^^;

Ah, and I have tried messing about with the Pen tool in Photoshop and it was pretty much an unmitigated disaster. I still haven't figured it out. I did have success with the Bezier curve drawing tool in Paint Shop Pro (as per this tutorial (http://makani.deviantart.com/art/Photoshop-PSP-lines-and-colors-11938151)) and it does produce very nice lines -- but it takes a very long time, and sometimes the lines come out a little too clean, almost a little inorganic maybe? I worry about my lines feeling too static, so this is a big deal for me. I admit that I cheat every one in a while if I have really really long line that must be very smooth and flowy -- then I draw a guide for myself in PaintShop Pro and work from that. But generally, no, I just use the brush and eraser tools in Photoshop =D

Although just to make sure you don't think I'm hot stuff with the eraser or anything, I don't actually use the eraser that much -- I tend to redraw more often. I use a lot of layer-drafts, so I have sketchy underlayers then when I feel I'm on the right track I start inking drafts and redraw everything entirely, clean this time. You can tell in the progression, I think, when I start over in a new layer and when I keep some lines from the previous layer.

And no, the only reference I had for the pose was the original drawing by

kamapon and, uh, well, my own hands? ^^; I did use a lot of references for Nick and Miles's appearance, though, like to get their hair and facial features right =)

And, of course, thank you so much for such a nice comment =D

I almost forgot that I had my DA link on my profile *scratches head* I don't particularly like much of the art on there but I'm glad that someone else likes them. ^_^

Actually. xD I'm not very good at thin lines myself. I sorta cheated on that red and white pic on my DA. I just blew the picture resolution really high and used a 5px brush to outline the lineart. lol. XDD That pic was a learning experience on photoshop and was ultra time consuming. D: I'm just learning how to draw digitally, most of my art in my DA was all traditional. ^^;

I also draw with a sketch underlayer and then I go over my lineart with black, though I don't use multiple layers like you (which is a really good idea btw). I really loved your lineart on that milesxphoenix pic though. It's so ridiculously clean *is jealous :P*

Also, just wondering, but are you also a Final Fantasy fan? :D

Sorry, anytime someone mentions that they draw I try to ferret out their gallery -- bad habit ^^;

Hey, I cheat like a fiend with blowing up the resolution -- the working size for this pic was 4000x300 pixels! I've spoiled myself with Photoshop, really - I need to go back and do more traditional work.

And yes! I'm a Final Fantasy fan! I've played, uh... half of FFIII(DS), started FFIV(GBA), am traipsing around Disc 1 on FFVII, nearly finished FFVIII, finished FFIX, finished FFX, nearly finished FFXII. So, yes, I like Final Fantasy. I have some old-ish art in my gallery, and I've written a little fic, mostly for FFX =)

WOW. That resolution is ginormous. hahahaha. Omg, I don't even think I draw at that resolution myself. xD

I also tend to look up someone's art gallery also if they have nice artwork *hand in cookie jar. lol*

Awesome, I'm a big Final fantasy fan myself. :D I've played through III(ds), IV, part of VII, VIII, IX, X, and XII.
Ooo...I used to love reading FFX fanfiction. Tidus and Yuna were love <3

Also, do you mind if I friend you? We seem to have quite a lot on common. If you don't mind that is :3

Of course I don't mind if you friend me! My LJ's pretty random, but I do post my art and fic here consistently, and it's the only place I ever show in-progress stuff.

And yeah, I work at huge resolutions when it's a serious pic, sketching at 25% zoom then 50% for cleanup and 100% or 200% for detailing. For sketches and such though usually I work at about half that size, or just plain ol' normal size ^^;

Hee I love Tidus and Yuna! <3 <3

Oh how intricate. I just keep it at one size for sketching and then zoom to 200% for the lineart :P I might go back to hand sketching though since I don't wanna loose that skill. xD

Friended ^_^

Holy shit. This is fucking hot, dude.

Ahaha, thanks XD

Someday I should really come back and draw some OP art. I've gotten better, I think; it would be interesting to try my hand at some old favourites ;)

YES YOU SHOULD.

I am still waiting on the 34957839048503 Lucci/Shuraiya pictures you promised me. XD

I- I'M AN AWFUL PERSON I'M SORRY

D-do I deserve to be punished?

Seriously though Lucci/Shuraiya is still fucking hot and I still want to come back for more >.>

Yes, by drawing more fanart for my crack pairing! >:O ♥

Nobody can resist the utter hot of those two together. *A*

That is both incredibly hot and beautiful line art. =D

Thanks very much! =D

I love your man-hands. <3 I'm always thrilled to pieces when someone draws honest to goodness man-hands. ^-^

I-- I-- I love hands, so I'm really glad you think the ones here turned out nice! I obsess a lot over making hands look appropriate in terms of both build and gesture, and considering I used my tiny little girl-hands as models it's really good to hear I managed to make the end product look manly! I ADORE their huge huge man-hands in canon ^^; Thanks so much for commenting on this aspect =D

OMG GAY LAWYERS.

sorry, no crit today, sick and melted of hot. but gay lawyers. omg.

No crit is a-okay, I'm just glad you liked it! I keep forgetting how many people I know are actually in the PW fandom XDD

Um, um, um... I don't really have anything constructive to say, but I do think that this is really, really good... Draw more lawyers, plz? ^^;

Oh yeah! Thanks for the progression animation! I love those sorts of things. I'm going to study it. X3

Ahah, I don't usually do those, but I documented this one kind of obsessively so I could ask my friend to make sure I was doing the body language right. I'm glad it's helpful -- I always love it when artists do that kind of thing, so I figured I might as well, since I had the pics anyway!

And thanks for this and your previous comment! I will try to do more in the PW fandom for sure =)

I'm glad to hear it, and definitely looking forward to more! :D

And um... I thought I'd let you know, I decided to start coloring this picture I drew a few days ago and have been utterly inspired to work extra hard and pay more attention to my lineart. That's usually the part I either skimp on or try to cheat my way through the most. It's so tiring getting lineart to look really, really good, but, um...I'm going to try!! It will take me forever, but I'll try! XD

And then I'll have to try to get my coloring quality to match. Oh dear, oh dear. Maybe I'll have something else for inspiration by then. XD

Wow, that's awesome that you've been motivated to improve! It's hard and it takes time, but it's worth it, so I wish you the best of luck!

My favorite bits: Edgeworth's hair and neck (adam's apple & all) and Phoenix's forearm (because rolled-up shirtsleeves and forearms like that, yum). The perspectives and angles are all spot-on; I can't imagine how difficult working that out would be. (I never did anything beyond single-person drawings all those years ago in school, and even those, when working from a real model, still failed miserably at perspective.)

The only thing that struck me as a little off was that the feet/socks were a little shapeless -- but I think that's mostly me loathing socks in general and wanting them to take them off because eww socks.

Oh wow, thanks for the detailed commentary! I did get a bit of a break on the perspective, since I had the original drawing to go off of. Perspective is really hard! Usually it doesn't work out this well for me ^^;

Ahaha, the socks! I did try to make sure the shape of the feet showed through, but they weren't super tight socks or anything -- they came off looking a tad on the loose and thick side, I think. I might try aiming for those thin, tight-ish socks you wear with nice slacks and shoes ... on Miles, at least ;) I agree, though -- I like bare feet better, and they're way more fun (and much harder!) to draw =)

Wow that's beautiful! I envy your lines, I really do. I really want to see the coloured version, so I hope you post it.

And I agree with you about Edgeworth, the man is a beast! I mean look at his torso here (http://gyakusai.magical-art.com/gallery/gallery.php?g2_itemId=507/)

Oh man, I know, Edgeworth is surprisingly huge. And yes, once I colour it I do plan to post it -- I'm just quite slow at colours, sorry ^^;

Thanks for commenting! =D

Dude that looks amaaaaaazing! /drool

I think Edgeworth has a closet full of 80s shoulder pads because... really now. That or he's a linebacker on weekends.

And I don't know why, but I LOVE that you kept their socks on *_*

Seriously, I know -- Edgeworth is built crazy-huge when you think about it!

Thanks very much for both comments, though the socks-on idea probably has to be credited to the original pic =)

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[Art] Phoenix Wright - After Entirely Too Much Deliberation On the Matter (Phoenix/Miles) (PG)

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